Do not install Windows 10 KB5034441 Update!

2 hours ago, roadworx said:

steam no longer runs on win7

It runs, it just doesn't receive the latest client updates. It will probably continue to run indefinitely, and even after that, the command-line client that few people know about will probably work indefinitely.

Not that I recommend DRM-platform gaming. Always check out DRM-free vendors like gog.com first when game-shopping.

8 hours ago, AndrewB said:

I've yet to encounter this in any meaningful way. Both my high-end PCs are dedicated W7. 

Then you don't really do much. We've already started to run into problems with the lack of updates in Win7 with our own games, notably Quake 2 and Rise of the Triad no longer have functioning online multiplayer in that version because they can't actually log in to the master server, specifically they don't understand the HTTPS certificates. It appears Quake 1 is now having this problem too (it was working for a brief period but that seemed to have changed between Q1 and Q2). I can't even get LAN support fully working on Windows 7 because it doesn't have an mDNS library, you can do a direct connection but it has no ability to broadcast or discover games.

8 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

Then you don't really do much. We've already started to run into problems with the lack of updates in Win7 with our own games, notably Quake 2 and Rise of the Triad no longer have functioning online multiplayer in that version because they can't actually log in to the master server, specifically they don't understand the HTTPS certificates. It appears Quake 1 is now having this problem too (it was working for a brief period but that seemed to have changed between Q1 and Q2). I can't even get LAN support fully working on Windows 7 because it doesn't have an mDNS library, you can do a direct connection but it has no ability to broadcast or discover games.

Given that Windows 7 is only found on about 3.3% of PCs, I would not lose any sleep or waste any time with that.

Not getting affected by problems due to not applying security updates isn't indicative that updates are not necessary, it just means you got lucky or are knowledgeable enough not to fall for certain tricks security exploits like to use, likely both. I seem to recall a massive ransomware outbreak a few years ago where Microsoft patched the security hole it exploited months before. It's rare, but it can happen. And yes, as security and software needs change, 7 will inevitably get left behind as it mostly already has. The only major browser still supporting it is Firefox I believe, but that's set to end later this year. And almost no new hardware that comes out these days has 7 driver support. He's going to have to face a newer version of Windows eventually, or switch to Linux.

Nothing Andrew suggested is remotely practical for the vast majority of users and brings a lot of extra burden to bare. If he chooses to do things that way it's his call, and I would not recommend anyone who does not know precisely what they are doing follow his lead.

3 hours ago, Murdoch said:

Given that Windows 7 is only found on about 3.3% of PCs, I would not lose any sleep or waste any time with that.

 

Not getting affected by problems due to not applying security updates isn't indicative that updates are not necessary, it just means you got lucky or are knowledgeable enough not to fall for certain tricks security exploits like to use, likely both. I seem to recall a massive ransomware outbreak a few years ago where Microsoft patched the security hole it exploited months before. It's rare, but it can happen. And yes, as security and software needs change, 7 will inevitably get left behind as it mostly already has. The only major browser still supporting it is Firefox I believe, but that's set to end later this year. And almost no new hardware that comes out these days has 7 driver support. He's going to have to face a newer version of Windows eventually, or switch to Linux.

 

Nothing Andrew suggested is remotely practical for the vast majority of users and brings a lot of extra burden to bare. If he chooses to do things that way it's his call, and I would not recommend anyone who does not know precisely what they are doing follow his lead.

Not to mention the fact that Win7 does not support DirectX12 (except some specific games via an added compatibility layer), so any future games utilizing it will not work. I think developers shouldn't waste effort and resources to support a minority of users who are using an outdated OS and/or have outdated specs. It only holds back the final product for the majority. I've had arguments with people about this before. Sometimes they'll say shit like "not everyone is privileged enough to afford a new CPU/GPU/more than 512MB of RAM" as if that's someone else's fault. They recognize the fact that every other industry on the planet must move forward, but when it comes to video games, everyone else has to bend over backwards to support their eMachines PC they bought 10 years ago for $200 at Walmart. They call other people entitled for having the money to build a decent PC, but they think they're entitled to lifetime support (that costs other people time and money) for what might as well be scrap metal.

Not talking about anyone in this thread to be clear, it's just something that irks me.

1 hour ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Not talking about anyone in this thread to be clear, it's just something that irks me.

Agreed brother. In fact in researching a couple of things for my post, i found a post on the Brave browser forum of some entitled prat losing his mind and calling the developers assholes for dropping Windows 7 support. People like that can fuck right the hell off.

2 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Not to mention the fact that Win7 does not support DirectX12 (except some specific games via an added compatibility layer), so any future games utilizing it will not work. I think developers shouldn't waste effort and resources to support a minority of users who are using an outdated OS and/or have outdated specs. It only holds back the final product for the majority. I've had arguments with people about this before. Sometimes they'll say shit like "not everyone is privileged enough to afford a new CPU/GPU/more than 512MB of RAM" as if that's someone else's fault. They recognize the fact that every other industry on the planet must move forward, but when it comes to video games, everyone else has to bend over backwards to support their eMachines PC they bought 10 years ago for $200 at Walmart. They call other people entitled for having the money to build a decent PC, but they think they're entitled to lifetime support (that costs other people time and money) for what might as well be scrap metal. 

 

Not talking about anyone in this thread to be clear, it's just something that irks me.

I think the people responsible for this mindset is a certain group of open source developers who seem to be stubbornly averse to the fact that technology advances. "We will support everything we possibly can" seems to be their mantra.

Just having a look at the general landscape of ports for older games often makes me scratch my head. Instead of focussing on a reasonable baseline we sometimes instead get projects that desperately cling on to outdated tech, both hard- and software, as if the project's lifeblood depended on it.

Of course this not just shows itself with games, there's countless projects out there which appear to work overtime to keep Windows XP support alive.

All this really does is giving upgrade-resistant users excuses for not upgrading their systems, which then creates a vicious circle where developers see their bias towards the old confirmed and things continue.

On 1/12/2024 at 10:18 AM, DNSKILL5 said:

Everyone go back to windows 3.1 NOW. The gig is up. 

True gigachads use Windows 1

6 hours ago, bobstremglav said:

True gigachads use Windows 1

Well, Microsoft chose to name the previous Xbox console "Xbox One", so I guess it is only a matter of time before we get "Windows One".

I could not function on Windows 7.

• It's not a supported configuration from at least one of the NDA'ed SDK's I use.
• Visual Studio 2022, the first native 64-bit version of Visual Studio, has dropped support for Windows 7.
  • I think Visual Studio 2019 still works, but you can't use Address Sanitizer on Windows 7, which I consider critical to my development workflow.
• Firefox is either going to drop support or has already dropped support.
• Modern versions of Python don't run on Windows 7, and you can pry the improved typing support in later versions from my cold, dead hands.
• Windows Terminal, a tool I consider indispensable as a heavy command prompt user, requires Windows 10.
  • Not only that, but it can replace the default Conhost systemwide on Windows 11 without any nasty form of DLL injection.
• Windows Subsystem for Linux, by far the easiest way to run Linux on Windows, requires Windows 10.
  • Upgrading to Windows 11 gets you native GUI support too.

On 1/16/2024 at 8:13 PM, Rudolph said:

Well, Microsoft chose to name the previous Xbox console "Xbox One", so I guess it is only a matter of time before we get "Windows One".

Windows First

Windows 0

Windows 11-10

In about ten or so years with Windows 10's end of life happening in Oct. 2025, I can see it being used only for hobby reasons, just like all the earlier versions of Windows.

Still a shame because if it wasn't the case and most of the programs didn't drop support, I would still be on Windows XP Professional by now. But I guess people move on, for better or for worse.

Linux I also couldn't use full-time because either I am just too used to Windows or because there are some tasks I still do that doesn't work well under Linux natively.

Bonus :