What do you want id to do next after Eternal?

one day, it may not be today, or this year, or heck, maybe even this decade, Ranger will join his brethren with Blaskowicz and Doomguy with a new entry worthy of a comeback, and not being in a dead overwatch-arena shooter hybrid

Clearly it needs to be Doom Finale, where you as Hugo Martin must defeat Hugo Martin to shut down the Doomslayer timeline.

Personally, I think they should "let go" Hugo Martin. I cite Battlemode as the main reason why his tenure needs to be up.

2 hours ago, Hellektronic said:

Personally, I think they should "let go" Hugo Martin.

The /r/doom army will never forgive this.

Quake Champions 2

I think we need to revive the Quake Champions that we know first C:

//Doom

Doom2: Hell on Earth

Doom64: the Absolution

Doom 3

Doom (2016)

Doom Eternal...

"Absolute Doom"....

or

""The Living End""...

"Doomed: Dance With the Devil"

16 hours ago, Lila Feuer said:

The /r/doom army will never forgive this.

Hah, we can only hope right?

 

On 3/3/2021 at 4:51 PM, Captain Keen said:

Or... Commander Keen in 3D with ray tracing. The most photoreal Dopefish ever created!

actually, that sounds like a good concept!

hovertank 3d......... 2!

On 10/13/2023 at 5:02 AM, Hellektronic said:

Personally, I think they should "let go" Hugo Martin. I cite Battlemode as the main reason why his tenure needs to be up.

Sure, that was a risky gamble that didn't pay off. But developers shying away from taking risks (or being prevented from doing so by the suits) is what gets us endless iterations of the same stale CoD-BLOPS-Modern-Borefare clones. I would rather have Doom be something that developers are willing to take risks with, rather than just playing it safe.

On 3/4/2021 at 7:40 PM, Silhouette 03 said:

I think they killed that project.... 

Sometimes, dead is better.

I'd much rather not see anything to do with a franchise i love than to see it burn a second time.
Once was enough as is.

13 hours ago, NoXion said:

 

Sure, that was a risky gamble that didn't pay off. But developers shying away from taking risks (or being prevented from doing so by the suits) is what gets us endless iterations of the same stale CoD-BLOPS-Modern-Borefare clones. I would rather have Doom be something that developers are willing to take risks with, rather than just playing it safe.

Yea, this. I didnt like battlemode either, or some of the changes doom eternal made, but Noxi is right. If they stop taking gambles then we'll be stuck with boring crap again. The only way to find good things sometimes is to keep taking chances. Not everything can be a winner and not taking chances will lead to complacency and the flattening of artistic merit.

Something i once said is that a new Doom should look cel-shaded or stylized to feel like a comic book because Eternal could've reached that.

But also because it reminds me of people complaining about the game looking cartoony: is it really just that it was "cartoony" or that it wasn't cartoony in the right way?

Because you look at interviews and stuff, you see a mix of weird references like He-Man (not only because it felt goofy, but also because it felt like id was using Robot Chicken as some sort of guide) and interesting ones like RoboCop but the art style is still very modern.

A phrase that someone said and still lives in my mind is "it aims to be 90's when old Doom aims to be 80's" and it made me realize that classic Doom does look 80-ish.

If the box art wasn't for a 1993 innovative classic game, it could have been for a sci-fi book or even movie poster, because of the simple designs.

Even if the Cacodemon is a DND copy/trace, it is a sign of Doom wearing its influence really heavily. (since a lot of iconic gaming series like MGS are noticeable for copying stuff from other mediums)

And a specific example: Hunter from Quake 3 Arena is inspired by Simon Bisley's Full Cirkle.

With Eternal wanting to be "nerdy", i wondered if Heavy Metal comics, 2000AD or even Druillet ever came to id's minds when looking up inspirations for Eternal's art direction.

Because at the same time, 2016's Hell used Beksinski as a reference and i feel like we could've gotten further with that.

I remember an image that was "what we want vs what we got" where it compared artwork for various sci-fi/fantasy novels/movies/etc and screenshots of modern games.

Yeah, it's probably another arguement bait image but it did made me wonder: with how many games that took influence from certain things (to the point of occasional plagiarism), i think technology reached a point that in a way, we could mimic the aesthetic or "feel" of a cool 70's sci-fi illustration.

But even if game devs could in theory mimic certain aesthetics, it comes down to some factors.

A director that has specific preferences/references.

An artist that aims to use those inspirations heavily and avoiding certain trends.

And ingame artists and modellers that try to tweak the game's assets accordingly.

I guess an indie game would have it easier than an AAA game, whether it's because of a smaller graphical scale or the absense of suits going "no, you gotta make it look AAA enough".

In general, "frame of reference" is interesting specially with media that technically borrows from other media.

It's part of why i think there's always stuff that can be done with Doom.

I've never understood the complaints about Doom Eternal being "cartoony". Did these people never play the first two games? I don't know how goofy it was intended to come across at the time, because back then I was a young child who never played the games in question, but to my adult eyes in the here and now, classic Doom's depiction of Hell feels closer to a kid's plastic Halloween costume, more than anything seriously intended to be frightening, like an actor's makeup in an 18-rated straight-faced horror movie. The classic games have a cool aesthetic don't get me wrong, but it just doesn't come across as genuinely terrifying when viewed through a screen, even though the implications are objectively disturbing and would be harrowing to anyone actually experiencing them.
 

Doom 3 and to a certain extent Doom 2016 are the exceptions, their greater graphical fidelity helps and their aesthetic presentation is no doubt darker and more gritty, but even those games have their moments that are more spoopy than spooky. Doom 3 relies too much on the kind of cheap tricks found in a fairground house of horrors, and in Doom 2016 I think that any horror elements present are seriously undercut by the fact the player character is already established to be the kind of badass who makes demons wet their keks in fear.

I always wondered if people had more to say but had a weak vocabolary/point of reference or just had basic observations when it comes to discussing Eternal like that.

Because when 2016 came out, people already said the demons looked like "Dota 2" and Doomguy looked like Master Chief.

You can even say that Eternal is not cartoony enough because the art style is still detailed and professional while classic Doom was id taking photos of toys.

To me, "horror in Doom" is less about pitch black darkness or scare jumps and more about interesting art direction, specially because Doom's Hell was always unique and has potential to be more.

It's why some of D3 designs will grow on you when you consider their weirdness like the Bruiser.

2016 sort of had a limited Hell and put a rather "shared biology" assthetic with the chitin focus, then had lore explaining demons like how the UAC studied them and even created/modified some.

Immora had "Hell tech" but for the sake of a civilization instead of the weird stuff in D1/2 or even borrowing something from Cultist Hell.

I can see that sort of limiting Hell, specially in the games about how powerfull the protagonist is.

It's part of how you'll find centuries old illustrations of demons and Hell with interesting designs.

It even makes me think Doom can be easier for horror than Quake because Hell can be seen as a concept "that knows it's evil" while Quake being about Lovecraft means some people want more than just tentacles or eyes. (at least if the tentacles don't resemble those of real life animals).

Part of why people even argue about "what is Doom" is because the creators, by not caring much about story or lore at the time, ended up creating a weird presentation.

You can cherrypick specific parts of the game and think it's the main thing or something.

Because one thing is most people ignoring the story or setting, another is looking at things and realizing it's a mess because the actual creators didn't took it seriously.

But that also leads to creativity and fun stuff, making Doom more versatile.

I know it's more Raven Software, but I'd love a modern Heretic 3.

iD still hold publishing rights to the first three games, interestingly. I think it would be Activision *shudder* for any future releases.

Quote

In 2014, Raven co-founder Brian Raffel had expressed interest in making a sequel to the Heretic series. Rather than licensing it to other developers, he wants Raven to do it themselves.

It's been almost 10 years, I'm not sure if this will ever happen, though

Does Raven even have the same people anymore?

With Doom, most people like the new direction, but a lot of these modern FPS games sort of borrow elements from each others' franchises.

Because a lot of these games were originally defined by specific gameplay and engine features.

Which is why some people think that a new Quake SP game could have its chances hindered by the existence of the new Doom's.

Because there's also elements from old games not in the new ones, so maybe a new Quake could have an enemy functioning like the classic Arch-vile just because Eternal didn't have one.

There's also the matter of whether or not adding certain RPG elements to the Serpent Riders series affects its identity, if one were to compare it to other games.

Another thing is aesthetics and themes, since again, Doom went through different art styles and even with occasional throwbacks, there's some stuff not back.

Because i remember seeing someone's redesigns of Hexen enemies that looked cool but people would obviously call it "trendy" even if the designs are still recognizeable.

With that in mind, i always thought it was safer to make Doom "tribute" those games by having mechanical references (as in, taking their features) instead of bringing back those franchises.

I also recall something about Romero wanting to do a third series like Hectic or Hecatomb?

A reboot of Quake keeping the feel of the original quake 1. It'd probably be called QUAKE just like the doom reboot was called DOOM.
I'd also love a classic doom 1-64 remake similar to what Night Dive did with System Shock

On 10/23/2023 at 6:58 AM, NoXion said:

I've never understood the complaints about Doom Eternal being "cartoony".

 

Earth zombies make a dog chew toy squeak sound when you make them accordion, which is literally what happens to somebody in a Looney Tunes short when an anvil falls on top of them. When you grab enemies to do a glory kill, they make (admittedly hilarious, but also tonally goofy) faces. Cacos can eat bombs and blow up their stomachs like dodongos, and spin off into the distance like a deflating balloon if you berserk them. The main character has He-Man muscles, and his evil Marauder counterpart is clearly made like a He-Man action figure that uses all the same body parts and just has a different head. Hopefully this non-exhaustive list helps.

Hugo Martin himself cited "Saturday Morning cartoons" as an influence he was trying to consciously channel so there's really nothing to debate.

I want a remake of the classic Doom games

7 hours ago, DiceByte said:

I want a remake of the classic Doom games

Just seems redundant. Leave that to the community, not that it hasn't been done already!

I'd prefer if a remake of OG Doom was just 20 levels where each one was their own take on E1M1/Hangar.

Like any possible interpretation or reimagining possible of the level because of how Doom's appeal is how it can be interpretated differently, specially if one version acknowledges the blue carpet floors but another doesn't etc.

9 hours ago, DiceByte said:

I want a remake of the classic Doom games

We kinda already have 3 remakes (Doom 64, Doom 3 & Doom 2016 + Eternal).