Do people actually hate the DLCs?

a little late, but from what i've heard, half the fanbase hated TAG 1 for being too hard, and the other half hates TAG 2 for being too easy. i loved TAG 1, and liked TAG 2. the Dark Lord is, IMHO, the single worst thing ID Software has ever done in their history.

Just now, The Doommer said:

Also cuphead tutorial guy is the same person who struggled to play Doom Eternal, so it is pretty relevant.

Again, it was just one individual. Get over it already.

This man is either a game journalist himself or he's just here to nitpick on one quote I mentioned

In any case I think we should move on

2 minutes ago, map11has2names said:

the Dark Lord is, IMHO, the single worst thing ID Software has ever done in their history.

Disappointing boss fight?

3 minutes ago, map11has2names said:

half the fanbase hated TAG 1 for being too hard, and the other half hates TAG 2 for being too easy.

Can't satisfy everyone I suppose

15 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

he's just here to nitpick on one quote I mentioned

You are the one who nitpicked on one of Chezza's quotes in order to disregard their point.

Regardless of your opinion on a single game journalist, game journalists are players too, so their input does count.

If anything, the whole "git gud" mindset is detrimental to video games as a medium.

1 minute ago, The Doommer said:

Disappointing boss fight?

 

Can't satisfy everyone I suppose

Disappointing is an understatement. this is (supposedly) the Devil himself, and the best thing they could do is a beefed up Marauder? and the arena is just a circle? aside from that, i'm sorry, but the design for the boss fucking sucks. the only cool thing about it was the very end, where Doomguy actually speaks. (i think that's supposed to show that he's actually won the battle over not only Hell, but himself) i can link a video about TAG 2 if you want. it goes over everything.

6 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

You are the one who nitpicked on one of Chezza's quotes in order to disregard their point.

 

Regardless of your opinion on a single game journalist, game journalists are players too, so their input does count.

 

If anything, the whole "git gud" mindset is detrimental to video games as a medium.

the whole "game journalists suck" thing will always hold weight as long as they keep sucking at basic things. lemme ask you something: if you do something as a job, shouldn't you be good at it? and know the genre you're talking about?

3 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

You are the one who nitpicked on one of Chezza's quotes in order to disregard their point.

And while he laughed it off, you seem offended over a comment about game journalists

I'm sure if he felt it was a nitpick he'd argue on that without the need of a third party

4 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

If anything, the whole "git gud" mindset is detrimental to video games as a medium.

There are games that are made for a challenge, I'm pretty sure most of the "git gud" mindset is argued over them

Besides, not being able to pass a tutorial/game navigation is absolutely not "git gud mindset". There was an actual video on how a 3 year old did better on Cuphead's tutorial.

4 minutes ago, map11has2names said:

beefed up Marauder

Does seem like a lazy concept

1 minute ago, map11has2names said:

the whole "game journalists suck" thing will always hold weight as long as they keep sucking at basic things.

I mean IGN (one of the big ones) is known for horrible reviews too

They can't even review games properly...

11 minutes ago, map11has2names said:

lemme ask you something: if you do something as a job, shouldn't be good at it?

If I had to contend with strict deadlines in addition to having to play games for a living in an office, I would probably not always be at my best...

Incidentally, there have been scandal after scandal lately in regard to how dismal the working conditions can be in the entertainment media industry.

10 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

There are games that are made for a challenge, I'm pretty sure most of the "git gud" mindset is argued over them

As Chezza argued, the problem is not that the game is challenging, it is that it does not do a good job at teaching its mechanics. The developers themselves must have been aware of it to an extent, or else they would have not felt the need to shoehorn these tutorial videos.

If I can't play an instrument I probably would be a bad choice to review them...

7 minutes ago, Rudolph said:

As Chezza argued, the problem is not that the game is challenging, it is that it does not do a good job at teaching its mechanics.

And as I argued with that point, is that Doom Eternal fully embraces it being a game and tries to not include a tutorial mission to feel more like a game

However, there are some issues with that for people who play it for the second time, so I saw what he was getting at

Hey, you wanted to know why some people did not like The Ancient Gods. Do not start scoffing at the answers you are given if you do not like them.

A whole thread of me discussing points with other users and you for some reason consider that scoffing?

Not sure where I scoffed but OK...

12 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

And as I argued with that point, is that Doom Eternal fully embraces it being a game and tries to not include a tutorial mission to feel more like a game

No, it is not necessarily about the need for tutorial missions that explicitly tell you what to do. After all, the most effective way of teaching game mechanics is by making them intuitive so that the players can easily figure them out on their own. If a game has to constantly remind you how to play it, then maybe its design is not the most intuitive. For Doom Eternal and The Ancient Gods, the developers were reportedly subject to intense crunch sessions, so it is possible that this impacted the game development and forced them to cut corners and slap together those tutorial videos instead.

Just now, Rudolph said:

The most effective way of teaching game mechanics is by making them intuitive so that the players can easily figure them out on their own.

That is a very good point

However I'm not sure how they would do that for a lot of the mechanics

Yeah Ig you could have people try stuff out and figure it themselves but since the game is fast paced (you can't stand and think about something) you're gonna die a lot more

Yes, and some players have a very short tolerance for failure.

I mean, I had to give up on XCOM: Enemy Unknown 2012 because every time I lost a single soldier to a silly mistake, a bullshit scripted event or worse a bug, I started getting incredibly frustrated. I could always reload a save, but it felt wrong, like I was cheating. Either way, it just was not healthy.

Also, because of work, I no longer have as much free time as I used to, so I cannot always afford to give my full attention to a game. That is why I still play Classic Doom: it is usually never unforgivingly hard enough that I cannot catch up on all the podcasts I am subscribed to while I am playing.

At least, a Doom Eternal clone like Deadlink is a roguelite, so dying is part of the experience.

That's understandable

Tho I don't think Eternal on easier difficulties is that hard

I dunno really

On 7/4/2022 at 12:11 AM, gwain said:

doom2 in a nutshell

, but not really.

It isn't hard, just annoying. DE gives you tons of things to keep track of so when you die some idiot fan can point at you and say "WOW YOU DIDN'T FREEZE GRENADE THAT MONSTER IN THAT EXACT INSTANT? FUCKING CASUAL." It's like if Tetris gave you 50 pieces...it might be a lot "harder" but it'd be infinitely more annoying. 

35 minutes ago, Mr. Freeze said:

It isn't hard, just annoying. DE gives you tons of things to keep track of so when you die some idiot fan can point at you and say "WOW YOU DIDN'T FREEZE GRENADE THAT MONSTER IN THAT EXACT INSTANT? FUCKING CASUAL." It's like if Tetris gave you 50 pieces...it might be a lot "harder" but it'd be infinitely more annoying. 

i feel like you're just exaggerating one instance to prove a tired point.

2 hours ago, Rudolph said:

You are the one who nitpicked on one of Chezza's quotes in order to disregard their point.

 

Regardless of your opinion on a single game journalist, game journalists are players too, so their input does count.

 

If anything, the whole "git gud" mindset is detrimental to video games as a medium.

What do you mean by "git gud mindset"? The whole point of that is to practice and get better at the game instead of saying "this is to hard" because you couldn't pass the tutorial.

@Suess There are some games that I had to give up on because I kept dying no matter how many times I tried and I was not having fun anymore.

Another example would be Super Meat Boy: memorable graphics, great soundtrack, great concept... but by World 5, I was done with the game.

The same goes with Abe's Oddysee. Yes, I know the remake is reportedly more accessible, but I am not a fan of the way it looks and sounds.

Just now, Rudolph said:

@Suess There are some games that I had to give up on because I kept dying no matter how many times I tried and I was not having fun anymore.

 

Another example would be Super Meat Boy: memorable graphics, great soundtrack, great concept... but by World 5, I was done with the game.

 

The same goes with Abe's Oddysee. Yes, I know the remake is reportedly more accessible, but I am not a fan of the way it looks and sounds.

The people making fun of you for "not ice bombing an enemy" are just trying to get a reaction out of you, you're the problem for giving it to them. And are you gonna say "this game sucks" because you couldn't beat it? If not, then there's nothing wrong with that, it was just too hard for you.

@Suess What are you talking about?

1 hour ago, Suess said:

The people making fun of you for "not ice bombing an enemy" are just trying to get a reaction out of you

That is something Mr. Freeze said not Rudolph

6 hours ago, The Doommer said:

I guess the game is done harder than other mainstream games but that's not really a bad thing

Otherwise Dark Souls would be regarded as a bad game rather than a loved one

There’s a difference in what makes Dark Souls challenging and the newer Dooms challenging. Souls-styled games do get praised for their punishing difficulty but are also real straightforward and intuitive to play.

Dark Souls 2 is actually often panned by fans for some of the less intuitive gameplay mechanics it attempted to introduce, so much so that the developers have not reintroduced them back into the games they developed afterwards.

1 minute ago, BGrieber said:

real straightforward and intuitive to play.

I might have not played the DLCs but the basegame shows you how to beat the bosses/enemies and gives you (arguably not the best) tutorials on every mechanic

29 minutes ago, The Doommer said:

I might have not played the DLCs but the basegame shows you how to beat the bosses/enemies and gives you (arguably not the best) tutorials on every mechanic

 

 

Correct. But that’s highlighting the point I’m making, since this is not very intuitive.

I can agree with the fact that it could have been done better

But since there are a couple mechanics having people learn by themselves can result to way more deaths